Gay Dating Wars

Its clear the gay media are now part of some type of gay “mafia round table” primarily concerned with promoting the commercial interests of their friends and investors at the expense of the LGBT community.

Monopolisation of the “Gay Dating Sector” provides a constant flow on revenue for a growing number of the alleged “Gay Mafia” – and the majority of them have proven some type of connection to either gay sex chat-lines, gay dating websites and the gay press. There is no love lost between a number of the big gay websites that are not only competing for membership and subscriptions but also as a virtual advertising space that they use to promote the commercial interests of their friends.

Aggressive and stealth marketing techniques are being used by certain gay empire builders in a sleazy new media war against their competitors, using their ownership and influence over the gay press as a weapon to fight off any emerging threats. We have already reported on how the purchase of the “Puffta” gay teen website has been used by owners of gay tabloid “The Pink Paper” by “Millivres Prowler Group” to recruit new customers for it’s paid-for publications and it’s adult mail order trading arm, and how both Prowler and Gaydar had dubiously provided sponsorship under various brand names to a number of events and groups in exchange for influence, advertising space and as an attempt to make their customers believe they are supporting the interests of the community.

Last year our article exposing the truth about Puffta receive several careless, childish comments here on our wordpress blog attempting to defend their actions of the company – after which a simple check of the I.P address told us that it was posted from the offices of “QSoft Consulting” – the owners of Gaydar.

Millivres Prowler Group also carried out some rather in-depth research last year with “Out Now Consulting”, these comments appeared in an marketing news blog:

“This new UK gay market research report is a real groundbreaker,” said Ian Johnson, CEO of Out Now. “Many organisations, companies and brands, want to better understand the complexities of the UK gay and lesbian consumer market. Now the market data behind the UK gay market is going to become accessible in a way never possible before.” “This study will reach gay consumers through print and online. It will reach lesbian and gay youth and it will reach gay men and lesbians through their most important gay and lesbian media products,”

“We are delighted to announce this new research,” said Kim Watson, Deputy Managing Director of MPG. “Many people espouse views on the lives of lesbians and gay men, often without knowing the facts. Now, as a result of this new research, we will know more than ever before about the very many gays and lesbians in the UK whom our media products reach.”

GayMafiaWatch believes this current assault against ladslads.com is one such new technique dreamt up to cash in on the community. The above is clear proof of smarter, sneakier, move covert ways of harvesting the pink pound being explored and deployed – and the identity of those who are employing them.

More recently a “campaign” was launched on “Facebook” and promoted via the FitLads dating site after articles began to appear in “The Pink Paper” (which recently re-launched it’s own online presence) attempting to mount a campaign against “ladslads.com” with a rather dubious and blown-out-of-proportion story about a young man who had been told he would have to pay to have his ladslads.com profile removed which had been defaced.

Searching for this individual’s name on Google came up with a post apparently from someone of the same name claiming that his MSN messenger account had been hacked into. Even if this rather vague and contradictory story proves to be true and the actions of ladslads.com are right to be called into question – BUT clearly the bigger issue here is why all of a sudden has there been such a massive fuss focusing on this particular incident, and who would be benefiting from promoting it and smearing the company name through whatever means they have?

It could well be that “ladslads.com” has become too much of a threat to a threat to “them” and their friends, hence why the “The Pink Paper” has been so keen to pursuing this story whilst dismissing and ignoring other, more serious and relevant gay issues.

Fellow gays, please inform your peers of this possible stitch-up, and use this knowledge to protect your dignity and your own reputation. Don’t just sign up and lend your name to any old cause or campaign, especially when it is one promoted by the media itself that has the indisputable and dubious intention of protecting it’s own vested interests by getting it’s hands on your pink purse.

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91 Responses to Gay Dating Wars

  1. Geoff says:

    It’s time someone looked into the racism in the forums at Fitlads. Thread after thread is created about Muslims and immigrants and the same old names keep popping up in each thread, stoking the fire.

    Is there a little fascist cell active on there, posing as opinionated teenagers? In a typical comment in the last few days, one poster suggested that he would ‘blow up Muslims’ because they do it ‘to us’.

    These comments and threads don’t get removed, there is merely a button to click if you are offended. Once enough people have clicked, the thread is closed. However it remains on the website with the thread title visible.

    In the case of threads that include racially offensive words in the title, that remains for all to see, though of course it drops down the list into the archives.

  2. Dave Roberts says:

    I think this entire ‘campaign’ against LadsLads is unfounded and based on false allegations, blown out of all proportion by certain individuals or groups with the sole aim to cause as much damage as possible to ladslads.com.

    I believe the threat theory is quite plausable, as LadsLads has recently updated its site and is better than ever now.

    Even from price comparisons, LadsLads may charge £5 for instant deactivation, however, there is a choice, you don’t have to do that. If you compare LadsLads to FitLads pricewise, to do everything that you can do on LadsLads for free on Fitlads you have to pay £3. On LadsLads you don’t have to upgrade to get the full benefit of the site, because you already have it.

    That Pink Paper ‘article’ is flimsy and farcical to say the least, but you can understand why they published it if they want to get into the ‘game’ too.

    Dirty tricks by dirty companies trying to undermine a pretty damn good website.

  3. Its more true than you’d have thought!
    The £5 deactivation free is another thing completely misquoted. If people took the time to read the T&C or the deactivation page its quite clear there is a free alternative. And its one of the few sources of revenue we have.
    I suspect the fact that you can watch a video without paying a penny upsets these people!
    The PinkPaper article was amazing in itself. I was completely miss quoted when they printed “I Will not delete the account “I actually said “I will not delete the account until the owner of the account contacts me”. When I read the article you can imagine what I thought!
    To be fair their tactics are rather amusing, our market penetration was very low and all they seem to be doing is raising awareness.
    More fool seem considering we have seen faster growth in the last 4 weeks than ever before!

  4. Asa Love says:

    What a load of shit! there are no tactics made by fitlads.. its only the members that have issues with ladslads…

    I asked one question about how to deleted my profile and got my account suspended… but yet ladslads thought it was a great idea to use my account to send “winks” to many of its members..

    Once my account was reinstated i had numerours replies from the members that “winks” were sent.. it’s disgusting.

    How dare they give them selves the right to use my account to send messages to their own members as a vicious vendetta

  5. DevilDarling says:

    I don’t think the gay mafia watch blog was actually accusing or attacking fitlads at all but was pointing out that this smear campaign against ladslads.com had been spread on fitlads…. a mutual rival site of those who probably behind this bollocks. HELLO it’s probably connected to those saddos at “GAYD*R” who are stuck in the dark ages and shitting themselves at the rise of sites like fitlads and ladslads.com

  6. Geoff says:

    What actually is the free alternative to cancel your account on LadsLads?

    I would guess that is against the privacy and data protection laws to charge people to have their data removed and also that detailing some free alternative deep in the terms and conditions would be frowned on.

    Overall it seems like a bad business model. I stopped paying a membership in protest at the racism in the Fitlads forum but must say their system is transparent. You pay, don’t get rebilled, and you can delete your membership easily with a click.

    Whether any of these sites are actually any different, well I wonder. Fitlads has had nghts in the Hollywood Showbar and its new magazine has an article on ‘moisturising’. It seems the ‘same old’ but in trackies to me.

  7. Its not the case that we charge only deletion at all. Simply looking on the deactivate page gives two very clear options which has always been the case.

    Reading the terms and conditions backs up what the deactivate page says. If you want it removed NOW then there is a fee. If you want your profile removed from the site then delete your pictures and the content and stop logging into it and it will go. Its no different to what Faceparty did for years (which the site was modelled on).

    And I might also point out deleting your profile on gaydar doesnt remove the thing, as they can reactivate it, and seeing as your posts remain on fitlads after deletion that is hardly any better.

    Again complete misinformation!

  8. To be fair you come on the site, you use it for free. We dont force people to pay, we do however make a point that before you completly wipe an account from the database we check it.

    Let say there was a button to COMPLETLY delete your account (which there is not on GAYDAR or FITLADS) someone gets hold of your password and deletes it, its gone for good.

    Most people leave becuase they have found someone etc. Deleting your pictures, and content, so one you done appear in most searches immeadetly and on the next account cleanup it gets removed sounds pretty good to me.

    I deleted my account on GayDar in 2005. Yet I get surveys, I get invites to their GaydarNation. Just how exactly does that happen?

    A reply to the tatics of “Fitlads” Nobody suggest there was. But considering they recently launched a new movie website run by Prowler, luanched a new magazine and refuse to remove threads of a personal nature attacking any and all moderators on LadsLads would suggest there is clearly an issue there.

    I have even attempted to talk to “Joe” from Fitlads directly on the phone and my call has not been returned.

    Only this week Fitlads have allowed yet another rumor to surface that I or “LadsLads” have some sort of camplaign against their website. Well I dont see any fitlads blogs on LadsLads. Not becuase they are not posted but becuase I understand people get banned from any site, but they wont find LadsLads the place to turn ourt blogs into a riot!

    To be fair the people that earlier poster “Asa” refered to that have been banned would have been banned for a reason. We arent in the business of removing people with no reason. Im quite happy to ban someone that comes on the site and posts something like “Fitlads rulez ladslads is crap”.
    And no I wont delete the account, not until the user apologies or makes a formal request.

    It might be ok on Fitlads to have childish games, and fighting on the blogs, it isnt on LadsLads and we wont tolerate it.

    What is it to be?
    We are trrying to take members from fitlads or ban them? It cant be both, so yet another contradiction to the argument ASA! Its infact neither.

    The point is you are making flawless claims, just like the article in the Pink Paper!

  9. Geoff says:

    Sorry but I think your terms are ridiculous. It sounds as if they were written by a control freak. Why not just have a clear cut system and let people delete? In this day and age it doesn’t cost you anything to create or delete a profile:

    “Deactivation of Profile

    You understand that the account is completely free, however you agree it will remain open and active for a period of at least two years, this is the minimum period for which you agree to be an active user on the site.

    Deactivation is always free. If you wish to deactivate your profile you may do so simply by removing all Pictures, Videos and Profile content and then refrain from logging into it for a period of at least 3 months. At such time, your account will be deactivated. If you login to the site in the meantime, the deactivation timer will be reset and you will have to wait another 3 months from that date for your profile to be deactivated.

    If you need your profile removed more quickly, we offer a premium rate SMS method to UK users which will result in your profile being deactivated within 24 hours. This service will be charged £5. The mobile number provided for the deactivation SMS will not be used for any other purpose but to deactivate your account.”

  10. The terms and conditions were a copy and paste job from Facebook in 2005 lol

  11. FaceParty in 2005 sorry.
    The deactivation procedure generates revenue which is required to maintain the website. Its free if you play ball.

    And all said and done. gaydar nor fitlads offer a service where your profile data is completly removed! And inactual fact even Facebook has a similar procedure.
    Except I have the option for you to pay a fee and have it purged completly. Whats wrong with that?

    Yet I will remove it after the pictures have been deleted when we do a DB purge.

  12. Geoff says:

    LOL well I don’t have any axe to grind with your site in particular. I haven’t used it so far. I just think the best business model is to let the customer go when he/she wants and they may come back sometime.

    Seeming to lock people into things is just liable to upset them.

    I have certain issues with both Gaydar and Fitlads. The first for being so restrictive on what free members can do (and the promo messages are annoying) and with Fitlads as it seems to be in bed with some of the usual suspects while prtending to be different and also promotes bareback DVDs.

  13. Geoff If you want to rewrite that section of the terms or suggest something slightly different Im all ears. We arent going to stick with something that causes offence.

    The deactivation thing was never thought up at the start. Originally we only had the method of deleting pics which would result in an eventual purge from the database. People wanted it removed, we did respond via email to ensure the person in question was the owner of the account etc.

    Lets say I add a button to remove your profile like Gaydar. Is that better to pretend that the account is removed when its not?

    I dont have adverts on the site for a reason, as you can imagine I wont promote for a bit of cash some crap I dont believe in.

  14. Decoda Nelson says:

    This reads as well as The Sun Newspaper lol =] that and Narnia: all fantasy

  15. J. Love says:

    Mr. Jorgensen.

    There is a hate campaign against you and your site, not because you have become a threat but for the following reasons:

    .CHARGING TO HAVE YOUR ACCOUNT DEACTIVATED
    .KEEPING CONTENT ON YOUR SYSTEM AFTER DEACTIVATION
    .RE-INSTATING THE PROFILE AFTER DELETION AND CHANGING IT TO SOIL THE PERSON CHARACTER
    .BLOCKING I.P ADDRESS SO THE UNFORTUNATE VICTIM CAN NO LONGER VIEW YOUR SITE
    .SPAMMING OTHER WEBSITE
    .POSTING FAKE BLOGS ON YOUR WEBSITE SOILING OTHER WEBSITE NAMES E.G FITLADS
    .APPARENTLY YOU ARE ALSO BEHING THE DOS PING ATTACK WHICH RESULTED IN FITLADS CRASHING TWICE

    YOU ARE A UNDERHANDED SLIMEY MAN.

  16. Give it a few hours and I will change it to not have that option.

    If it causes that much fuss for for the £1000 or so a month it generates its not worth it!

    I’ll add a button then nobody can complain!

  17. Russell Booth-Atkins says:

    DevilDarling Says:

    July 9, 2008 at 11:18 am
    I don’t think the gay mafia watch blog was actually accusing or attacking fitlads at all but was pointing out that this smear campaign against ladslads.com had been spread on fitlads…. a mutual rival site of those who probably behind this bollocks. HELLO it’s probably connected to those saddos at “GAYD*R” who are stuck in the dark ages and shitting themselves at the rise of sites like fitlads and ladslads.com
    ________________

    I would have you note that I am the person running the petition and, the facebook group. I am connected to other social networking sites the same I was to ladslads, before I was treated in the way I was and, in no way: shape or form is this to do with any other networking site.

    This isn’t about an individual either, this is in respect of a collective group. Over 250 other people seem to think that too at the moment….and growing.

    I would suggest that such things are left without discussion by certain people: and that they allow processes to continue as they are, if everything is above board of course.

  18. Tally ho says:

    Why with ladslads:

    When ladslads was launched, why were gaydar and fitlads inundated with spam promoting ladslads…it got so bad that gaydar was forced to temporarily remove hotlinking form their chatrooms?

    why were fitlads members who signed up to ladslads finding their fitlads accounts mysteriously deleted en masse, this wouldnt have anything at all to do with the ladslads auto-import feature, would it?

    why have you plagiarised whole swathes of copyrighted material, specifically the faceparty T&C’s?

    why does your company registration move around so much, you are obviously a UK entity trying to avoid UK law by claiming to be an american company?

    why do members who wish to delete their profiles on ladslads, having been told it is done, get their profiles mysteriously reactivated, profile content that was not theres to begin with added, and en endless stream of winks and messages sent from their accounts?

    why is your ‘online now’ info so grossly inflated, when a quick and easy check of the alexa rankings shows that your actual traffic and userbase is tiny?

    why do you actively encourage your members to try and cause trouble for other websites?

    i am sure that it is just an amazing coincidence that fitlads suffers outages when there are active ‘anti-ladslads’ threads on their forum.

    you sir, are a dispicable piece of work, and it is nothing short of a miracle that you have been allowed to operate for as long as you have

  19. DavidDB says:

    If ladslads wants to come out whiter than white on this issue then a simple Delete Profile button would solve a lot of concerns. But clearly they will not.

    If you get into a row with them they WILL INTIMIDATE you – thankfully im NOT easily intimidated.

    The following statement is a true illustration of of the kind of stuff ladslads will do – If I was a young lad – living at home this kind of intimidation would be truly worrying – and guys have comitted suicide for less.

    It has been reported to The Information Commissioner’s Office ICO who have informed me they are investigating.

    Some weeks ago my account was terminated and every post I had made was deleted and I had no idea why so I searched for on-line guidelines and contact addresses and was unable to do so – help pages are scarce, and it looks like there is no recourse if you feel you have been treated unfairly.

    OK no biggie I thought – I would do what a lot of users appear to be doing – re-create a new user name and off you go.

    A common addition to many posts on their site includes a note from wary users – “Hope this post does not get me banned” …. And I too use it as a bit of a joke if my post is remotely political.

    I Received an email on the sites internal email system from a user called djorgensen
    I checked later when he sent me a link to http://www.ladslads.com/about.aspx that he appears to be the owner of the website and likes to dress like a nightclub bouncer.)

    In That Email he really scared me by asking me the the following questions or told me stuff he should not have known by reading any information I provided to the site :

    1 Did I know a woman’s name – Mrs XXXX (She died recently but was on the Registered Electors list my home address). – But this could easily have been my landlord or Parent.

    2 Do I know a man Called Mr XXXX ( Hes the Joint MD of my employers)

    3 Did I know a Mr XXX (He’s the 2nd Joint MD of my former employers) I guess they logged a fixed IP address which is traceable to Mr Employer – (So Dont Check your Messages during the lunch break guys!)

    4 He also asked me “Did I really expect to find a FLAT SWAP from Newport To London?” ( I have registered to put my council flat up for transfer to a London House swap scheme at CCHE

    5 He also informed me that as I had contacted the LadsLads Site from my workplace – XXX Ltd – And That they had left a viocemail on the Managing Directors phone to say that I had used the GAY LadsLads site from my office. (Thankfully my boss knows Im Gay and Loves me for it! – If your boss was homophobic you might wish to start looking for a new job at this point.)

    6 That he had found pictures I had posted on Google Earth of my home. (Implying he knew my Name Address and even pictures of exactly which flat to find me)

    __________________

    NONE of the above information above was submitted to LadsLads site so I guess it was some good detective work based on my POSTCODE, IP address and email address.

    I am an IT Pro and I must take my hat off to him for putting all that information together in under 20 mins
    However I feel violated – intimidated and threatened.

    Any recourse I have by hi lighting how badly I feel could be met with further attacks either on my integrity or person by a man that starts almost every post with “Im Straight – But …. ” I think hes straight with issues …. but obviously not hating the pink pound too much.

    If the ICO does not take action – I will take all my logs to South Wales Police.

  20. matt says:

    when you go to delete your account in the help menu it states at my last look the only given option is sms

    also you do ban with no reason or a bad reason – i.e me as i pointed alot of features in the website change had been removed some were minor things like username search.

    when i got a rather sarcastic and rude answer from you which i corrected you on you deleted me

    also the fitlads blogs on yor site were heavily moderated pro fitlads blogs were deleted promptly and anti stayed – untill the latest issues at fitlads then you deleted all anti also. why wait so long to do this if you are anti argument?

  21. Will Tisdale says:

    This is a conversation I had with the muppet that is ‘running’ that ‘petition’ on Facebook after he removed my post questioning it and banned me from the group:

    Russell Booth-Atkins
    Add as Friend
    July 8 at 5:33pm
    Report Message
    Is there actually any hard evidence, ie proof for all of this or was it all dreamed up by the owners of fitlads.net as they feel threatened by LadsLads?

    That Pink Paper article sounds a bit lame at best, why on earth would any admin on LadsLads change someones profile to read that, and why on earth would they say anything like that when questioned.

    No, i’m sorry, it’s very fishy to me, sounds like a load of cock and bull designed to discredit a pretty damn good website.
    _____________

    The petition has the backing of ex-members and current members of ladslads myself being one of them. It has happened and, is still happening.

    Though I welcome your comments, fitlads.net has nothing to do with this petition nor this facebook group. I would question you even mentioning them: that is what seems fishy to me.

    Your comment has, for your information been noted and deleted.

    Will Tisdale
    July 8 at 5:40pm
    Hmmm, I find it very strange. When was the last time you used LadsLads? I mention fitlads as every day there is yet another bunch of debatable comments made, and it appears to be only about LadsLads that these comments are made.

    I notice that you removed the comment, which I also find strange, maybe you don’t want other people to think in the same manner as me perhaps?

    Russell Booth-Atkins
    Add as Friend
    July 8 at 5:44pm
    Report Message

    I was on there a mere 3 months ago. I had the same done to me, hence why I have thousands of messages in my inbox from winks which I never sent out. I have the backing of at least 200 other signatures on the petition whom are willing to state what has happened to them, all of which I have contact details for and all of which will act when the time is right.

    I will not, however, have you implicating another social networking site when it has nothing to do with them. That is the reason for deletion of your comment and why you have been banned from the group. Not for your opinion, but for your unfounded accusations.

    Remember, I can back mine up.

    Best wishes,

    Russ x

    Will Tisdale
    July 8 at 6:07pm
    Back it up then…

    Will Tisdale
    Today at 8:00am
    Here we go, more people think what I think….I suggest you show your ‘evidence’ to back up your claims. And don’t be going deleting that comment off your farcical ‘group’ either, as that will prove to quite a few that it’s the truth.

    https://gaymafiawatch.wordpress.com/2008/07/08/gay-dating-wars/

    Russell Booth-Atkins
    Add as Friend
    Today at 9:26am
    Report Message
    “back it up then”

    do you not think the [now] 250+ people who are saying it has also happened to them isn’t evidence enough…..

    We will see when the info is handed to the ICO.

    and I will run the group as I see fit, ensuring it is not in any significant sense prejudicial to the cause.

    I can assure you though, the way in which ladslads treated me along with the rest is why this is happening, nothing to do with a mafia watch.

    Russell.

    Will Tisdale
    Today at 5:50pm
    Lol, how do you know any of those 250 alleged people were even members of LadsLads. You don’t have any evidence that anything happened to anyone except for a silly article in the Pink Paper.

    Even the owner of LadsLads was more than happy to post on that blog, however, you obviously can’t stand any critisism to your bullshit hate campaign.

    I think it is a nice scam orchestrated by Fitlads, and ran by a muppet personally, and you haven’t given me anything except for a couple of hundred quite probably lying Fitlads members to prove otherwise.

    Please don’t bother replying unless you are going to cut the crap and start telling the truth of what this is all about.

  22. Will Tisdale says:

    And, the muppet that runs the petition did exactly what I thought he would do, he deleted the comment off the thread that linked to this petition. He really doesn’t want people doubting it.

    Everybody, mark it as abuse and get Facebook on the case as it is a scam designed to discredit LadsLads, nothing more.

  23. Will Tisdale says:

    Can you delete that comment above as I made a typo. 😉 Cheers.

    And, the muppet that runs the petition did exactly what I thought he would do, he deleted the comment off the thread that linked to this blog. He really doesn’t want people doubting it.

    Everybody, mark it as abuse and get Facebook on the case as it is a scam designed to discredit LadsLads, nothing more.

  24. Asa Love says:

    To be fair Damien i used to use your site quite frequently in the past.. i’ve never had an issue at all with any site.. In fact i used to advertise alot of my live DJ sets, and post links to my mixes on your site..

    It’s only been in the last year or so where i haven’t used it. I did in fact hear about the “speculation” a few days ago.. But that wasn’t what prompted me to remove it..

    I had a look on your site to see if i could delete it, only found the chargeable SMS service and to be quite frank i’m no way going to pay to remove my account at a price and i wasn’t prepared to to wait 2 years for it to go away on it’s own..

    I posted on the blog “help” “Is there a way to remove my profile without paying”

    That was it.. nothing about Fitlads, nothing about speculations, nothing apart from a genuine query and next min you froze my account..

    Either yourself or someone in your team used my account to send “Winks” to loads of people I didn’t know.. It’s completely unacceptable and very vicious.

    I emailed your banned email dept and told them and they re-instated my account.. So i tool it upon my self to respond to a few of the replies i got and told them that i did not send them.. I even went thought my account to delete my pics.. got to the last one and you banned me again..

    You and your site are just playing stupid games with real people, it’s utterly pathetic. Now I’m getting messages from people on fitlads saying “You sent me a wink of ladslads” and they have provided me with screen prints.

    I’ve spoken to many people about this and they have had the same issues, vicious and vindictive tricks from your site purely out of spite!

    It’s supposed to be a gay community and people should be standing by each other, I’ve not got time to be messing about with pathetic arguments between social websites.. It’s the internet for Christ’s sake! Why don’t you grow up and stop playing about with peoples lives!

  25. David says:

    Damien, what have you got to say about posting peoples’ private nude pictures as public, as has happened to a few members? Surely this is a breach of the Data Protection Act?

    What have you got to say about putting people’s pictures back as public the day after the member deleted them, using their account to send winks to numerous members and then banning the member after they try to delete their pictures again? Leaving the member with no access to their account. Surely this is a breach of the Data Protection Act?

    What have you got to say about certain member account being used to send defamatory messages to every member of your website claiming untrue things? The cancer issue is just one, but I have seen proof of other things that are similar in nature. I have seen a screenshot of a profile that has over 12000 new messages because of such tactics. Surely this is a breach of the Data Protection Act?

    What have you got to say about spamming people’s e-mail accounts with automated winks in general? It is common knowledge that inactive accounts are used to send winks to random members to give a false sense of activity and that winks are sent to inactive members to try get them back on the site again. Only on LadsLads.com can you have 63 new messages over 3 months on a profile that is completely blank and never been filled in! There is no option to unsubscribe from your e-mail alerts without paying a fee and to me that is pure spam. Not to mention the insecurity of sending your members’ password with every one.

    Now I understand your website may be hosted in the USA where the Data Protection Act does not apply but I don’t believe the USA has no data privacy laws of their own.

    I really would love some answers to these questions because I have experienced first hand most of these tactics. It seems to me that you don’t care at all about your members and treat it all as a game.

  26. Ive made my point. We changed the deactivation system to free as to remove this kind of complaint.

    Its not a founded complaint as despite what the PinkPaper said there is no Data Protection enquiry, we never have been contacted by the DPA and despite the site being located in the US we are a UK company and abide by the DPA.

    Until I changed the terms earlier you were contacted into a 2 year profile requirment. Which as Geoff said which a bit on the harsh side. So claims we held your data for longer than needed are wrong.

    FITLADS, GAYDAR AND FACEBOOK do NOT delete your data. So dont suggest we acted out of the norm. If it were the case then you wouldnt be able to reactivate your account on those sites! The fact that threads still exist from users on Fitlads also proves they dont delete your data.

    So again complete and utter rubbish by a bunch of Fitlads users. Its only a matter of logging onto the front page of your site to see you are all discussing what to post on here!

    You are the monkeys for paying someone £3.50 to see some pictures when you can do it free on LadsLads. But to be frank im quite happy for you to stay on there. It proves just how desperate your site is to try and make a point that its above board.

    It promotes Bareback sex, rejects all abuse complaints and is in bed with the daddy of the “gay” media world Prowler

    What a complete and utter joke the lot of you look.

    And Joe good on you deleting my account. Just proves that when people try and be civil the low life like yourself and your “friends” can always go a bit lower.

  27. Steve says:

    Looking at the above, the whole lot looks like a big fit up and a scam. I don’t believe for one minute any of the things that ladslads has been accused of. Nobody has stated why a website would do such a thing anyway so its nonsense as far as I am concerned.

    As damien posted, and which I can agree with fitlads do not remove your pics either as I deleted my profile a while ago and the pictures are still on their server.

    GayMafiaWatch, I think you are right, it’s a fit up.

  28. Andrew Killigan says:

    All I can see is Fitlads users posting on LadsLads rubbish, I go onto Fitlads and its full of threads them planning what to do next.

    It makes me think twice about keeping my Fitlads account open considering I use the site to chat not take part in Bitch Fight orgys

    Every Since LadsLads launched their new site I have seen thread after thread on Fitlads of people talking about it and the same users slide the thread into one which creates a negative light for LadsLads

    I am also shocked when I see peoples personal details given out on Fitlads, they arent removed people ring the number for a laugh

    Not to mention the aparnt disregrad for the Jews with the number of Pro Nazi threads, and bascially threads designed to hurt and upset people

    So reading all this and reading the threads on Fitlads, I cant find any on LadsLads. Im left with the conclustion that thar article is completly correct in its assumption that its a planned effort against LadsLads which Fitlads is clearly a part of

  29. Dan Gower says:

    OK – this kind of spiteful, and vindictive campaign by a very vocal minority against LadsLads.com reflects very poorly on those people behind it.

    I’ve been a member of LadsLads pretty much since it started – and throughout I have seen Damien develop the site, innovating new ideas, and cleverly building a strong and cohesive online community – somewhere where guys can speak to each other, debate (mostly intelligently), and make new friends.

    LadsLads has become successful by listening to its members, developing new features and giving this pretty much freely to the community it serves.

    I’m not suggesting that LadsLads is utter perfection – it’s not – but for some people to portray Damien as anything other than a talented coder with a flair for new ideas is frankly disingenuous.

    Moreover, I find it odd, that so many of the “established” sites – instead of seeking to compete by INNOVATING… are instead sinking to the gutter tactics of mud slinging – it’s not big, it’s not clever, and frankly I would have expected better from these companies.

  30. Joe Edwards says:

    I joined Fitlads years ago, and its gone down hill fast.

    I dont see any investment in the site, all I see is them launching other things, like Magazines, Supporting Football teams, running Gay Nights which are bascially sex parties.

    Sleeze. I am not a member of LadsLads infact I have only ever heard it talked about on Fitlads forums. I have noticed its the same core profiles on Fitlads which attack it.

    I got to this blog from fitlads, after reading what people were suggesting. But I can see the logic in the post. A few users on Fitlads whip other members into a state which makes them believe anything.

    Seeing the reaction I have seen I have no doubt at all that the article is right. Reading the stuff about Pufta, it makes sense that Fitlads is aprt of the same out fit.

    So to end, im going to leave Fitlads just like a lot of my friends as I dont want to be assocated with the kind of people that seem all to ready to do just about anything without any proof and without even understand what it is they are talking about.

  31. Dan Gower says:

    I’ll add that what goes around generally comes around – and I’ve no doubt that this pathetic mud-slinging attempt will backfire on whoever is actually behind it. My challenge to the owners of these other sites – PROVE that you are not behind this by cleaning up your own forums etc. and making it clear to your OWN members that this kind of behaviour reflects poorly on your OWN site.

  32. And I didnt see the bit about posting people private pictures nude!

    Nobody has ever complained about that, thats a new one lol

    Anything else you can think of now?

    Oh wait lets search the Fitlads forums and see apparantly I stole everyones credit cards details to! Nice

    Anything else anyone wants to make up now. Or we going into cloud coco land

  33. Im also reading on your Fitlads Forums that I was a Primay School teacher and that I was sacked for “unknown” reasons. And apparantly I like you boys.

    Well suprise suprise thats not even a very good “story” but again its complete fiction.

    Im sure if I looked long enough I could find all kinds of intresting facts about myself I never knew before!

    Apparantly there is a police case looking into me too, mind that was posted a few years ago. Anyone any crime number or are we all still talking complete and utter BS.

  34. Aneurin Warren says:

    Right then ppl!!

    ladslads is the best gay dating/socialising site i have seen, i am on a few others and looked at many more none of them are anywere near as good as ladslads!

    for a start ladslads is NOT a sleazy website, it trys hard to keep it nude images hiden unless your looking for them, like many sites it had a privet gallery for one. it also has vidoes on the site that can be seen on the main page however these vidioes are montored and if they are of a pornographic nature can be reported and will not appear on the main page again. they are actively striving to make it less of a sleazy site all the time! unlike others.

    The main page has many blogs that appere on it and has many features to serch for blogs you may be intersted in. anyone can wright a blog on anything they want. however i have seen many blogs that are just out to insult another site (fitlads) or purely to start a heated argument taken down befor anyone has a chance to coment on them.

    the site is 100% free also. their is an option to become a suporter and you can use a few extra feature, but the main features people like, like- enlaged photos, are free compaired to fitlads were things like that you have to pay for. ladslads douse not pressurise ppl into paying, ppl pay because they want to suport the site because they like it and NOT because they want you to use features that should be free like fitlads do.

    All sites that i know of that you can make profiles will keep your information, mainly for other users protection. if a user is abusive they will be deleted and stored so that if they try and regester again they will be denied. and if you dont aggre with this prehaps you should try reading terms and conditins befor you sign anything!!!

    basicaly i find ladslads a good place to chat to people who arent out just for sex, and an interesting site to look at constantly with all the blogs. other sites you basicaly look at profs and msg ppl

  35. Gareth says:

    I can safely say I support LadsLads.

    A lot of the stories I am reading seem like a gay bitchness to be honest and jealously.

    As stated from Damien Jorgensen, the T&C does state in regards to this deactivation of an account story.

    I support LadsLads because I want to, it’s a great site, a lot of hard work and effort given from just one person who has given a lot to a community which is now facing this attacks on the site.

    I’ve supported the site, even when doing so you would receive little extras to the advance features to the site (which has now got better) mainly for the reason because I will suport a site for the purpose it’s trying to convey which is giving a continued free site to it’s gay community.

    I will continue to support LadsLads based on this.

    The site continually improves, and does so through the support of those members who contribute in paying for the membership.

  36. Aneurin Warren says:

    also thinking about it and i just read a few coment above – fit lads forums are full of shit lol the forums are not easly seen so only a very few numebr of people even look at them unlike ladslads.

    just looked on their right now and i read a blog that said ‘Why are all the rancid old gay men that live nearby on ladslads and why do they always ask me out?’ this is clearly a slant against ladslads and how is somthing like this alowed to be posted!

    blogs of this nature will not be found on ladslads!

    id also like to point out that right now their are 3x more people on ladslads than fitlads so their is a likely hood you will get more msges on ladslads because its the more popular site!!!

    the fact that fitlads will alow these types of blogs makes me think that they are happy to try and manipulate their users against other site!!! you will not find any such manipulation on ladslads

  37. David says:

    Damien, you didn’t respond to most of the stuff I posted.

    I knew you were doing all of this back in early 2007. In those days I hadn’t even heard of Fitlads. My Fitlads profile isn’t even a year old yet, it was the treatment you gave on your site that sparked me to find a new site which would hopefully treat their members better. My issues with LadsLads are in no way connected to Fitlads as the most serious problems I had were before I knew Fitlads existed. I am a strong critic of the type of behaviour the members of Fitlads get up to but that’s true of all gay dating sites. I have experienced the same by the members of LadsLads and Gaydar. I have no attachment to Fitlads and still to this day I look for a gay dating site where the emphasis is not on sex.

    People are saying why would a site do such things to their members and are showing disbelief like we’re all a bunch of liars but I find that insulting. Just look at FaceParty, another example of a social networking website treating its members like trash. I am only vocal about the issues I’ve had now because of the level of upset your site is causing to dozens of people. Back in May 2007 or whenever it was that I had issues with your site I forgot about it because you eventually removed my profile. It was only through a threat of legal action for posting my private pictures in my public folder after I had deleted them that you eventually removed it.

    I gave your site another chance this year and I experienced yet more horrible tactics, despite never posting in a blog and only messaging a couple of people. I didn’t even use the site for months and had never touched my profile yet I logged in to many dozens of winks and one or two messages from an account that had messaged every profile on LadsLads. I added my details a couple of months ago but in recent weeks I start hearing lots of stories about what’s happening to people. Because of this and my own experiences last year I decided to remove as much information from my account as I could.

    This is where things get nasty. My pictures were made public within 24 hours of me removing them and my account had been used to send a number of winks as I had messages responding to them. This practise of sending messages from peoples’ accounts is entirely new as you weren’t doing it a year ago. It’s no wonder you prevented people from seeing their sent messages without paying a fee. Within 24 hours of me removing my pictures for a second time I was banned from the site with no access to my account and my pictures once again public.

    I will be sending an e-mail to you in the near future demanding my details be removed from the site. You say you’ve created a button or something to do it now which is a step in the right direction but with a banned account I can’t access this. The next steps you need to take are solving the other data protection issues I have outlined. If you were running your site in a way that treats its members with respect then no one would have an issue with it. Competition is good no matter what anyone says. Without it admins get lazy and nothing changes or improves. There are things I don’t like about the Fitlads site and a good competitor could force improvements.

    Aneurin Warren I would like to point out that based on Alexa data Fitlads gets twice as much traffic as LadsLads, so no you are not likely to get more messages on LadsLads than Fitlads. Like I have outlined already, a lot of the activity is faked through automated winks. Not to mention the “online users” is misleading because accounts stay logged in when users are not online. I’d bet there’s never more than 2000 members online at once if the “online users” was fixed. You are permanently shown as logged in unless you click the log out button, which is not the case on Fitlads. Being logged in and actually using the site are two different things.

  38. To prove my point here is a nice thread on Fitlads about some List 99 crap about me. One I was not a teacher. Two Ive not been convicted of any sex offence, charged for any sex offence nor have i ever been arrested, questioned and as far as I know never accused of one either.

    Yet Fitlads is happy to keep this kind of dribble up on its site. Despite me asking for it to be removed. Or at least investigated

  39. BamBam says:

    Ha ha ha, This all seems to harp back to chinese whispers and malicious bullying.
    Damien i fail to see why you are even bothering to respond, the more you bite the more they tickle.
    Regarding the “Sms removal” i say bring it back dont take it down! I support anything that keeps the site free and accessible to the masses. Everybody seems to forget that Ladslads is providing a good service for very little return on the whole by giving people a choice to pay not using restricted services as an incentive for peeps to cough up!
    The petition that is currently in place seems to be mostly made up of people who have been banned (for good reason) and have seen there arse! Tough! They feel they can somehow get back at the Ladslads admin with belly biting attacks lol, lets face it thou this ball has no momentum! The proof is in the eating here folks, Ladslads is a good site with good free services and a huge collection of gay people to talk with, Hell Gaydar and Fitlads should not worry because Ladslads is in a different league.

  40. David if you havent contacted us to remove your details then there is your issue dont post dribble saying issues if you havent even rasied them.

    You bring up the Data Protection Act like we break it, I dont see you providing anything other than your interpretation of the act as justification of this.

    We havent broken anything, make a formal data request and we will give you a formal response.

    Post shit on LadsLads and you will get banned, that means you cant get on the thing. Dont come crying to me becuase you acted like a plonker and now you cant get on the thing. Which is exactly the case here.

    Look go away read the DPA do what you will, but do it right and stop talking bull on these stupid petitions about investigations as there isnt one.

    Use your head, email support, be civil and you will get a civil response.

    Send support an email, fill it with abuse and it WILL get deleted. And if you think that violates the DPA then you need to consider what exactly it is can be considered unacceptable behaviour.

    The rest of your context makes little difference doesn it. Alexa? so what. Where are we exactly a few 1000 places behind Fitlads lol, ok. That puts us in Third position. If im not mitaken we launched in 2006, Fitlads in 2003? Not a bad position I dont think.

    Dont tell me I treat our members like trash, if that were the case then the Alexa ranking you keep talking about wouldnt be going UP quicker than FITLADS would it. So before you spout your complete and utter BS go take a break, have a sit down be civil and you will get further in life.

  41. What you are doing David is taking what could well be a bad support case and instead of using the DPA like it should be used to make a formal request.

    To be frank there is a telephone number on the site no doubt you havent dialed it. You are usinf Fitlads, this blog and whatever else to convert it into something it isnt.

    You know we dont have 24/7 staff on support, we dont have hightly trainned moderators. Maybe you were banned without reason. I really couldnt say. As I dont know who you are to be quite honest.

    But providing you contact support@ladslads.com, with a complaint with isnt abusive, doesnt threaten to be a prat and go on Fitlads and do XYZ i.e. be a normal person you’ll get someone that will be very helpful back.

    If for example you have had a credit card chargeback for an upgrade. Then that will have to be addressed, if you have posted something in a blog which we consider spam, i.e. promoting a commercial service then you are going to have to address that first.

    But failing that, rather than attempt to fill this and Fitlads with your story and complete and utter garbage how about you simply do it correctly.

    So before you post some crap in here, send an email and lets see what the issue us. Then I can respond exactly to the problem. And im not doing guess work

  42. BamBam If taking it down means we expose Fitlads claim that its free as a sham good!

    It has FREE SITE on the front page. How about those muppets take that down, that would come under Trading Standards im sure! Im no expert and dont pretend to be like some of these muppets. But oh no I dont make a blog about it on LadsLads.

    Heres some addtional screenshots if anyone wants to take a look, all fresh tonight but from this last week. Funny game they are playing I think anyone with have a brain would agree





  43. BamBam If taking it down means we expose Fitlads claim that its free as a sham good!

    It has FREE SITE on the front page. How about those muppets take that down, that would come under Trading Standards im sure! Im no expert and dont pretend to be like some of these muppets. But oh no I dont make a blog about it on LadsLads.

    Heres some addtional screenshots if anyone wants to take a look, all fresh tonight but from this last week. Funny game they are playing I think anyone with have a brain would agree

  44. http://cdn.ladslads.com/effordev/fitlads/index.html

    I’ve uploaded all the nice screen shots on there so, you can take a look at their little games.

    Very professional outfit clearly

  45. Geoff says:

    Are those allegations in the Fitlads forum still on there? Certainly libel. And above it unrealboy suggests uploading as many big pictures as possible. Which is a form of denial of service attack.

    Here are a few of comments from the last few days, taken from just four threads on the Fitlads forums:.

    These posted by ‘dannyboi07’ and no he hasn’t been deleted for it:

    About Muslims:

    “if i have to blow em up i will as they have killed inocent british ppl so y dont we do wot they do”

    “teach em a lesss on in 30 yrs they will b runnin this country and u lot withh b cryin when the rope goes round ur neck so u lot better start thinkin and doing sumthing bout it ”

    “if u dont like it fuck off out of my countryas its not urs m8 and will neva b urs”

    “u no wot i mean this country aint british n e more we r second class ppl the goverment dont look after use they lok after the fuckin imagrants and muslims we shud b put first not them !!”

    “we r a BRITISH coutry i dont want that kind ere ”

    Other comments from various individuals:

    “the white man will be turned into slaves and will be driven out of this country for sure .. ”

    “i say we drive the muslim infadels into the sea ”

    “Actually it’s very true. Asians breed like rabbits and have massive families, generally.”

    “Well SabotFang – with a tiny few exceptions all the lads knifed were niggers, knifed by niggers!
    Enough said!”

    “one day we’ll have an uprising of us white folk, im waiting patiently ”

    “Q. complete… N – GGERS
    Clue: People who annoy you….
    Nah, u got that wrong m8…should be
    Q. complete… p*kis….lol”

    “Conform to British culture or fuck off “

  46. David says:

    Regardless of whether I have put in a formal request to have my account removed (something no reasonable website requires) there is no justification for putting peoples’ picture back to public after a user has tried to delete them and then banning the user for trying to delete them again. Getting my profile removed is only a small issue to me, there’s nothing on this account that I wouldn’t show the world. The bigger points I’m making here are how you treat your members and that’s more important right now.

    You go out of your way to silence any negativity said about LadsLads and this is why the majority of your users are clueless as to what is going on. Though it is difficult not to notice their own accounts are sending spam (winks) to random people. I just wish people wouldn’t take a side based on the site they use and listen to individual experiences instead. For some of us, this has nothing at all to do with Fitlads. I do participate on their forums because like on this GayMafiaWatch thread it is nice to share experiences when things go wrong and help each other with the technicalities and legal jargon that surrounds such acts. Not everyone has a law degree to know where they stand. I have however studied the DPA and know what you have done with my data on various occasions is in breach of it. I know that making my details public when I have requested they be deleted is definitely in breach.

    Anyway I am done with this thread, I have clearly stated how you have treated me in the past and that’s all I have to say. Anything more would be unnecessary arguing. You are not going to publicly admit to certain things you have done because that would be a disaster for your website.

  47. Aneurin Warren says:

    their may be 2x as much traffic but douse that include blogs??? coz they are were a large numebr of people talk, also people log into ladslads not just to msg ppl for sex like other sites, they go on it to read blogs so are not driven to msg ppl out of bordome with the site itself!!!

    iv never heard of anyone else ever say this to me about automatic msging! and i generaly ignore ppl who winks me i do msged bk goign dont you read my prof which asks for no winks, and still to this day have i got somone to msg back to say i didnt wink you! so i think you might be shit sturing hear!

    also when ppl are online and i msg them 99% of the time i get my msg read within 20min so they would of had to of been at the comp and not been off the net for that to happen wouldent it!

    so far i have not reliably found any work you have said as truth!!!

  48. David stop talking crap

    You cant say regardless of whether you made a request. You have not emailed after I invited you to do so. Nobody has infact.

    So you quite clearly have nothing to gain other than attempting to spout crap.

    I offered help, you refuse it, why? becuase if you took up my offer you’d look like a muppet and you wouldnt be able to continue to spout you rubbish on the net

    Plain as day!

  49. Geoff those screen shots are there as of the time I posted them.

    They are days old, the worst ones have been removed. But there are pletny more on there.

  50. Aneurin Warren you have a fair point, If you look how ladslads works the number of page views is a lot lower as it doesnt refresh a frame to update your messages nor does it refresh if you leave it logged on rather it uses a web service.

  51. Aneurin Warren says:

    David you sound like a spoilt school brat who has to make a tantrum because hes been told off!!!

    Grow up for f**k sake!

  52. David says:

    I am guessing only profiles with no pictures send winks automatically because as far as I know my profile never sent any while my pictures were in the public section. However as soon as I tried to remove them I had two users old enough to be my dad respond to winks that were supposedly sent from me. I am not the only person who has had winks sent automatically but there must be some conditions Damien uses to try make it less obvious for active members such as only sending them from presumably unused accounts.

    Surely when I click “delete” on a picture I am requesting that data to be removed, am I not? I don’t expect to see the same picture placed back in public view within 24 hours on multiple occasions and then banned as a result. I should not have to e-mail you to delete a picture when your website is supposed to have this feature implemented. That’s all I wished to do at the time of getting banned, I didn’t even care that they’d still be in the trash can.

    Any e-mail to you would be to delete my whole profile, and until the point of getting a ban I was happy to keep my profile on the server in an unused state. It’s the events that came before this that I am unhappy about, yet you continually tell me to send you an e-mail like that’s the most important thing and ignore everything else. Deleting my profile would not make my complaints go away!

  53. David says:

    I suggest you take a look in the mirror Aneurin Warren. Your inability to have a mature discussion is quite amusing. It’s amazing someone can finish a degree yet still have your attitude.

  54. David I dont even know who you are!

    So you ask me to comment on your issues and you wont play ball!

    I cant do more than offer to help. But its quite clear some people cant take help

  55. Aneurin Warren says:

    My inability to have a mature descution!

    i have being haveing a very fair discution with you, and iv been able to counter everything so far you have said.

    that statment is one to characterise you becase all of this, in my eyes, is total and utter bolox i know of no one else who has come across these propems you clame!

    to me you just sean sore because you where banned from a site. because if their was anything else going on you would of been able to get leagal action, which you havent done!

    also have you not thought that somone has hacked your account! and this has nothign to do with the ladslads organisation!

    dont jump to conclusions mate! yet another one you have is that iv finished uni, i havent.

  56. David says:

    Your above post shows your immaturity in all its glory. You can’t “counter” a fact. That’s like arguing it won’t get dark tonight. You are welcome to make accusations of lying but that just makes you look even worse. The fact is you know nothing so you should just shut the hell up.

    I haven’t taken any legal action because it costs money and I don’t want my parents finding out I’m gay. That and the first issue was resolved with a threat of legal action which was a serious threat at the time. The most recent issue is a data protection issue and not quite as serious.

    I couldn’t care less about being banned from the site and if you had reading skills better than an infant you would have seen that the most serious issues occurred over a year before I was banned from the site and that I have not had one personal issue with the site after the ban.

    As a computer scientist I take internet security very seriously. No one has “hacked” anything. It’s absurd to suggest such a thing. It sounds to me that you will defend the site no matter what anyone says and through any dribble you can dream up. Since you fail to read what people actually post it is clear you are just here for an argument and that type of behaviour should not be supported by Gay Mafia Watch.

    The facts are there, people who know me know I wouldn’t lie to them for 14 or so months about some random website they’ve never used. I suggest you take a long hard look at yourself and grow the hell up. Anything else you post will be ignored because your failure to read my posts is going to lead to a lot of repetition. If you have anything else to say my responses are in this thread.

  57. Aneurin Warren says:

    well ok i have said my peace i think that ladslads is a good website and i have never personaly had or heard of anyone else who has had a single problem you have mentioned!

    and the type of hacking i was talking about was someone finding out your password, and no thats not a ludercrus assumption.

    and im sorry that i wish to defend somthing that i belive in, D.J has had people saying shit about him and his website for a while with made up stories and i belive this is another one of them!

  58. David you are yet to simply reply with some details like I asked. The offer is still open. But of course you cannot accept as it will result in your whole argument being blown out of the window.

    Instead you are opting to take a position that I am not helpful, when the complete opposite is the case.

    You talk about hacking, its completly unfounnded. You got a police crime number?
    As I dont!

    You talk about DPA, yet im not the one not deleting pictures, Fitlads is! Just look at my screen shots. How can a user be deleted and their profile name, comments and pictures still be visible?

    Im not about to raise a DPA complaint, but it seems to me they are a little more guilty of the charges that you ahev your pals levelled against me.

    Either engage or stop repeating yourself. You’ve not emailed, or called today. I keep making an offer to you to look at the issues you claim exisit, like I offered the PinkPaper but all you do is repeat something which is unproven, unfounded and a pack of lies.

    Your Facebook group founded as it would appear Fitlads have discovered that linking here and linking to LadsLads with out site comparsion has back fired a little on them.

    Amazing that!

  59. So rather than make accusation enage so I can address them, or post proof that a complaint has been made and the conclusion of the complaint. Or at least some details so I can go tot he DPA and address them.

    You cant do that becuase I’ve done nothing wrong. I’ve offered a free server and Fitlads nor your chums at Prowler and their numerious tat mags can compete with that!

  60. And now I read on your facebook group someone has been banned and deleted and we’ve winked from them or something.

    So earlier we were trying to stop people leaving by charging (when we wernt)
    then we hacked accounts

    and now we let people people leave for free we are banning them?

    Come on its the most stupid pack of lies, which doesnt even make sense!

  61. David says:

    Why do you keep going on about “my” FaceBook group? I’m not even a member of it and have never been!

    You’re still going on about things that are completely irrelevant to my main points. I tell you what, I will send you an e-mail, but that will not stop me asking why you made my private pictures public a year ago or why you refuse to allow members to use the picture deletion feature of your website or why winks or sent automatically from people’s accounts. I’ll send the e-mail just so you have to address those points because the rest of your argument will die at that point.

  62. David says:

    I’ve just been looking through my old MySpace messages for the conversation I had with a friend when the first incident occurred. It seems I was wrong when I said it happened over a year ago, the first incident actually occurred on January 4th of this year.

  63. Andrew says:

    Everyone on LadsLads has seen the ficticious blogs on there, slagging off fitlads & gaydar. They’re always created by ‘new members’, and commented on by Admin. As soon as anyone comments on the blog in a way which goes against the intention of its creator, the blog’s deleted by Admin (or Damien, above). If they’re as dishonest as that, I’d be very surprised if any of the pro-LadsLads messages above (apart from Damien’s) are from genuine users.

    Damien’s now made it free to deactivate your profile (just these last few days). He only did it because the website was getting such a bad name, though.

    I was a regular user of LadsLads, but have deactivated my profile. I’ve done it for one simple reason – I don’t trust the owner (Damien).

    There have been countless complaints about the owner’s behaviour and his misuse of data. Just one of the most appalling is that he emailed someone to show him all the private information he’d managed to dig up on him. He phoned his employer to tell him that he was using a gay website in work time, and he revealed that he knew his home address. The LadsLads owner seems to be a nasty piece of work, and clearly can’t be trusted with people’s data.

    Further, a few people who use the same password for msn as for LadsLads have reason to believe they’ve been hacked. All recently… They’re all people who’ve criticised LadsLads.

    As evidence of what Damien takes an interest in during his spare time, read what he had to say here:

    http://blog.iwr.co.uk/2007/06/facebook.html

    “Posted by :Damien Jorgensen | June 30, 2007 10:15 AM

    @ David: it’s a case of someone you know publishing it, even inadvertently. A friend of mine on facebook [does he really mean a friend?] published all of his friends’ updates to a Jaiku feed, which can be grabbed very easily by someone searching for someone’s name.
    The same goes for Christopher Soghoian’s search attack – if you know the name of your target, you can play Go Fish with the search tools in Facebook until you gather all the information you could wish for. I’m sure a script to do it automatically is not far off.”

  64. David you still arent playing bill.

    Ive offered to help, you dont want to know and you will keep posting the same crap in here no matter what I or anyone else says as you have an agenda

  65. reason says:

    How can people complain about terms and conditions these t&c’s say “by signing up you agree that”

    obviously your all “smart people” so you of course read the terms and conditions before hand and agreed to sign up. So why complain? Surely you didnt sign up with out reading terms and conditions, that would be silly!

    And people that got deleted or blogs deleted. Obviously you didnt break any rules, or spam or argue the toss or causse offense. I mean i know personally ive only ever seen disruptive immature spamming aggressive whingers deleted.

    You all must feel so hard done by for agreeing to terms and conditions and then to add insult to injury, you ignore the blog rules and get deleted, i mean jesus, whats the world coming to when you cant break rules and get away with it! how dare the OWNERS of a FREE site ban USERS for breaking the RULES.

    if you were at work and you you broke a rule your BOSS would FIRE you and HR keep the details for 5 YEARS.

    some of you children has too many issues and shouldnt even be allowed on the internet.

  66. Gary says:

    OH MY GOD!! – the comments from DavidDB on 9 July about his run in with Damien Jorgensen. It happened to me last week after I got seriously pissed off with ladslads spam emails.

    OK, I admit it I got carried away and left a very bad message on ladslads answer phone but that does not excuse the owner of that site or whoever it was from ladslads.com – gaining access to my yahoo email account and deleting it, and gaining access to my gaydar account, going into the chat room and promoting ladslads.com, then deleting my gaydar account. And then calling me to tell me they know all about me. Of course they know all about me, some of it’s on my ex ladslads.com profile and the rest on my gaydar profile. And how did they do all this? Easy really. Try the same user ID and password on my yahoo email and gaydar accounts. My fault for trying to keep my online life easy!

    And gaydar did confirm to me from the chat transcript that my profile was used to promote ladslads.com. Now why on earth would I do that? Promote a competitors website when I can’t abide it?

    Lets hope this doesn’t happen to other people. Change your passwords! Make sure you don’t use the same password for ladslads.com as you use for other sites. And for God’s sake don’t piss them off otherwise your life could be made a little miserable for a while.

  67. Phil Harmon says:

    I would like to agree with Geoff on his comments about the racism in Fitlads.net. I too was disgusted by the amount of racism tolerated by the admin of that site. It has only been the last couple of months that they have finally put a stop to most of the comments. They should have done this much earlier and I am afraid it only shows up how inexperienced they are running these sort of forums.

  68. cant stand bitching says:

    I have jus tread the comments on here and i cant believe how much bitching there has been !! Im afraid people who look at this page will be saying to them selfs … “yeap, thats a stereo type alright !!!” Lads, if you have problems take it to the relevent powers or go to the next step .. dont air your dirty laundry on the net.. have a bit of class people !

  69. Brian says:

    I was banned from ladslads.com a week ago by the owner for posting a response to a blog that he personally didn’t like. I was one of several people he banned in the same blog.

    Of course, now I cannot access my account. I went to the deactivation link he has mentioned in the T’s & C’s but that doesn’t seem to have removed my account as I am still receiving email “winks” from members via my email.

    I’m not affiliated with gaydar or fitlads and so have no axe to grind, but have to say that I find the owner of ladslads extremely childish and not the sort of person whom I want to entrust my private data to.

    As a result of my inability to delete my account, I’ll be lodging a complaint with the information commissioner today and encourage anyone who has had this problem on ladslads to do the same.

    Also, I find it really odd that gaydar and fitlads are experiencing serious denial of service attacks while ladslads rolls merrily on. Seems a bit fishy if you ask me.

  70. Tony says:

    I think this is just a simple case of someone who it seems, is a nasty piece of work and the sot who gives gay business people a bad name. Most of these alleged instances seem to be criminal poffences and I’d urge anyone so affected (especially the guy who’s employers were phoned), to lodge a complaint with the police for harassment and also strangely enough, homophobic bullying. Just cos the purpetrator is queer doesn’t mean there’s no homophobia offence.

    Similarly, I was appalled at th amount of racism, mysogony, religious intolerence, support for the BNP, homophobia and anti semitism on the fitlads forums. I continually reported items to the administrators and also to the police. I’m surprised they haven’t been prosecuted or closed down by now.

    Of course, the drive for money will always be the mitigating facotr in anyone’s so called ‘gay forums’. The people running these sort of sites are not worth a bucket of water over them even if they were on fire in the streeet.

  71. AJ says:

    Damien, you are one to blame for those awful comments, yes they are very harsh but if you treated persons with respect from your own site this would have never happened!

    I also have a massive issue with Ladslads.com, I was blocked by Damien for reasons he will not explain, and he is telling me to write all the way into America get such information when he is based in Cardiff, Wales UK. I have e-mailed and e-mailed requesting my profile to be deleted, he has refused. I can’t even delete my own profile! I use to have fitlads and I choose to ignore those kinds of blogs, but like I said if Damien treated his members with respect then that would have never happened, I no longer have fitlads so I will comment no more.

    With my account in ladslads.com he has refused to delete my own account without sending him proof, ID, which IS NOT in his T&C’s. This showing he has broken his own T&C’s by adding a load of nonsense!

    I have now made enquires with a Lawyer about this matter which hopefully in time he will be contacting you Damien about these matters.

    You have not just broken your own T&C’s but also the LAW! If your abiding by the DPA, then ABIDE to the DPA and THE LAW, before you start thinking you’re above such things.

    I tried my best to deal with this without getting others involved but Damien thinking he’s above it all playing games, upsets myself and tried to threaten me. This to me is pathetic and childish, and starting to look like he’s trying to single some people out or even homophobia because of his attitude towards most of the members within his site, as he’s suppose to be “straight”.

    One of my friends using the site recently deleted his profile content, pictures and so forth, couple of days later his profile was fully removed. NO WHY CANT I BE ALLOWED TO DO THAT!

    Damien is in no doubt abusing his power as the Owner/Administrator of Ladslads.com. I also have proof of him breaking his own Terms & Conditions, against privacy of others!

    I have warned that I will take further action; I thought he would have seen sense by now but look like he hasn’t so further action it is, therefore that’s why I have consulted a Lawyer on this matter.

    I leave it there, I have all the proof I need to show that Damien has abused his power and is not following his own Terms & Conditions or the law, its concerning he is allowed to have a site after his constant abuse, upset and offence towards other members that he has a duty to.

    If anyone has had a bad experience with ladslads.com, in whatever shape or form, please don’t hesitate to e-mail me your experiences so I can make a large file on ladslads.com to go to the local authorities, ICO, DPA and Court of Law.

    E-mail me your stories at gsncomplaints@googlemail.com (Gay Social Networking Complaints) BTW I aint a reporter or anything, just a member of the public that WILL NOT stand for this 🙂

    Thanks all x

  72. AJ says:

    And untill Damien deletes my profile I will keep battling him and I will win 🙂

    So I hope he see’s sense before a serious investigation is taken against Ladslads.com and himself

  73. Phil HARMON says:

    Visited the Fitlads site today and the racism is still as bad. The owners of the website needs to put a lid on it. It gives a bad representation of the gay community.

  74. anthony robinson says:

    hi ihave been blocked on ladslads for a long time for reasons i dont know as i have done nothing wrong i would be pleased if u could tell me if i have so i can rctify it ihave sent u many e mails to no avail could i have at least the curtesy of a rereply thanks anthony robinson

  75. Jordan Ross says:

    I have been a member of fitlads.net but some GENUINE information came to light today, im only here reading this forum as i was looking for other problems the sie may of been facing and i find this.. it kinda confirms a few things for me.

    fitlads.net is a horible wicked place. joe hill has some serious issues that, need investigating.
    Im not gonna start spreading rumours BUT all i will say is that, fitlads.net should NOT be on the internet full stop.

    I just hope other people get to see whats actually going on there.

    5 loyal years i was a member… Until i found out what i did.

  76. Insider says:

    i heard there was a connection to some far right political party?

    love to know what the sccary new genuine information is please tell all. lots of people have had a very bad experience of that site and its admin so i am sure you will be doing a lot of people a favour.

  77. Jay says:

    LadsLads is a f##kin joke… I complained about receiving what I considered as spam emails (I’d deactivated my account over 2 years ago) to find that I was now receiving wink replies from lads on a completely unrelated profile. In a matter of 2 days I had nearly 200 emails from ladslads.

    I cannot view LadsLads.com now as I’m IP Blocked?!?!? Damien is obviously of questionable character – any “business” that operates a non opt-out email policy has to be at least a bit dodgy.

    For crying out loud let me UNSUBSCRIBE!!!!

    I wondered for a long time when I was using the site that these “winks” were automatically generated because people would reply saying they hadn’t sent me one. I’d certainly never register with it again and tell everyone I know not to also!

    You can say all you like about Fitlads but I’ve never had any issues with them, gladly upgrade each month, and support issues are handled promptly.

  78. Steve G says:

    As a ladslads user I was recently upset by a moderator targetting me for reasons that it would appear, were down to jealousy.

    Having used the ladslads chatsite solely to post on blogs and genrally to make friends I often found myself suffering abuse on blogs prbably motivated by my age (57).

    On 3 days in succession I managed to turn around the situation of suffering abuse, caused the abuser substanstial humiliation, and paid the price for having achieved diffusing the abuse when one of the blogs in question was locked despite that it had been dormant for sometime, the moderator then posted a libelous piece of text, then sent me a message which was intimidating and threatening.

    I wrote to D Jorgensen via the messaging system on the site on the issue of the laptractice of his moderator.

    He ignored my message.

    I wrote to him again.

    He ignored that too.

    I then saw the moderator slandering me on seveal blogs.

    When a person has suffered abuse, the last thing he needs is then to be talked about in a derogitory way by a person who is supposed to be a professional manner.

    I complained more, to D Jorgensen who continued to ignore my messages and mails.

    My profile was then suspended and I started receiving hundreds of copies of emails involving a DIFFERENT profile on ths ite NOT OWNED BY ME but using MY e mail address.

    I contacted the police who basically said they would log the case but that they were powerless to do anything.

    Mr Jorgensen then e mailed me telling me that if I ever tried to get onto the LADSLADS site, I would start receiving hundreds of e mails again.

    I then started using Mr Joegensens’ own tactics, asking him about personal contacts he had.

    Suddenly, his attitude changed and he offered me reinstaement of my profile, a promise that his moderator would NOT be allowed to post on ANY blogs I was posting on, a free upgrade on my profile, and a published APOLOGY and ACKNOWLEDGEMNT OF UNFAIR TREATMENT on his site, and a PROMISE of his UNDIVIDED IMMEDIATE ATTENTION if I sufferered any further issues.

    Strange how intimidation works!!

  79. Help says:

    I am very seriously worried and am getting myself in an extreme case of panic about what I have read on this Blog.

    I was a frequent visitor to LadsLads.com, hardly ever commented on blogs. Occasionaly but hardly ever.

    I made what I thought was a completley innocent comment on a blog and had my account blocked.

    I sent and email to the banned@ladslads.com asking if I had done something wrong. I got a short reply that it was due to a comment I had made on a blog.

    I subsequently have requested that my profile be removed.

    I can’t click the de-activate my account button as that is one of the features that gets disabled when you are banned.

    I did not and still do not wish to upset or cause offence to the person who runs this web site, I think it is a very well designed web site.

    Reading this blog and the article on Pink Paper has totally put the fear of god in me. I just feel like there is no one who can help me.

    I am so scared that some of the private pictures and information on me will be misused. I am in the closet and when I come out I want to do it my own way.

    Is there anyone who can help me?

  80. Steve G says:

    Furthermore, I have to say I’m concerned that at the time of taking-out a profile on ladslads I found that as soon as I selected the page on the site where you may upload a pic of yourself, my CD player started whirring wildly and I then found that EVERY PIC on the CD had been uploaded to the site WITHOUT MY KNoWLEDGE & WITHOUT MY APPROVAL.

    I then had to delete all the pics from my profile that I didn’t want on there.
    However, people are complaining that their pics are apprearing on the net AFTER they have abandonded the ladslads chatsite.

    When the ladslads site software seems to search your computer for pictures as soon as you go to the pics upload page, out of your control and without your approval, D Jorgensens’ motives for operating the site seem to be rather dubious.

  81. […] site administration is handled by volunteers and there are still claims of unfair treatment and unprofessional behaviour (scroll down to comments after clicking link).  The site also blocks the names of its competitors […]

  82. Steve G says:

    I spoke to D Jorgensen the owner of ladslads yesterday.

    I expected him to conduct himself in an unprofessional manner, but his behaviour on the phone was far worse than I’d expected.

    Worse than being unprofessional I’d say he’s unfit to run a business let alone having innocent 16 & 17 year olds on the site.

    I feel that this man is a danger to the people his site serves.

    I have no doubts why he started such a site – moreover, a site that INSISTS that new members upload selfpics & give him unrestricted access to their MSN account (and all the members contacts).

    Having spoken to him on the phone I wouldn’t trust this man at all (and I’m not part of the gay mafia making slurs against him).

    He really is a very creepy man.

  83. Our helpsite is available to all who have complaints concerning LADSLADS. We are affiliated to no chatsite in particular & are completely neutral.

    We have learned of several malpractices of ladslads, practices which we intend to expose, and eliminate.

    We appriate that there is a gay chatsite war on at present but no-one should suffer malpractices & unjust abuse of users private & confidential information.

    We take issue with Ladslads institutionalised abuse of private data, & its cavalier attitude regarding the treatment of its users.

  84. A user says:

    Like others here i had a ladslads account. I can’t say i ever used it much, as i signed up on a whim and soon forgot about it. A week or so later i tried to delete it, saw you needed to pay (!?) and so deleted my photos and text, etc.

    Then the “winks” started. About 3 or 4 every day. Marking them as spam seemed to help at first.

    Over the months they slowed down to on or two a week from, seemingly, the same people over and over again.

    After a few months i got sick of getting alerts about them so noticed the “you can’t unsubscribe these emails in your account” spiel at the bottom of one of them. “Lovely.” i thought. “it’s been my mistake not doin this sooner.”

    of course trying to log in resulted in some god awful “comedy music” and the “access restricted” notice. Bring “resiretcied” you cannot deactivate your account, find the support e-mail or anything useful – just the banned@ladslads.com e-mail through which i have e-mail again and again – always courteous mind as i had (yes, past tense now) no axe to grind or beef with ladslads.

    The winks keep coming despite asking for my account to be nuked etc. I’ve e-mails from the very address i signed up with but all is alas – for nothing.

    Whilst i have nothing to be “worried” about, this is a form of spam and given every picture and letter of text has magically appeared on my profile page again surely contravenes a ton of DPA issues.

    It’s sad that I’m now having to waste time and money passing this over to my solicitor (who made her name dealing with DPA breaches thankfully!) in-order to just get my account deleted as i had originally asked! Currently having to get a DPA request lodged.

    For a website that is getting really big (which is a good thing for the gay community. perhaps) but which acts in such a schoolyard, bullyish and reckless manner with users data – well, hopefully people will wake up to it. I know i certainly have and if i’m still sat here another 6 months down the line waiting for MY data to be removed from their servers, well…

    Anyway, good on this web-blog for bring this to peoples’ attention because the majority of the “gay media” is incredibly secular and self-interested. If any other website was run and behaved as

  85. jordan ross says:

    im disgusted at the amount of 16 and 17 year old boys on ladslads wearing very little clothes whilst bending over in compromising positions. I had no idea people could legally join ladlads at that age. especially considering the amouth of explicit pics from the guys aged 18+.
    i have just tried to delete my account but theres no delete option (immediate my arse) there is however a unsubscribe ad should i wish to rejoin just enter the same user name and password and it will be done instantly! – how can that be if this “new button” purges the system of all my details? MORE LIES!

    and just to clarify, iam able to do alot more on fitlads than i was on ladslads without paying a fee….

    i could respond to messages on fitlads – cant do that on ladslads unless i pay £10 or allow them access to my msn/hotmail…. no chance…

    overall, and just from reading the comments from this ladslads founder, i get a sense that he is a hot head… with an attitude problem…
    the use of language is limited to profanity….

    i regret joining ladslads. im glad i did not pay. and im glad i did not allow access to my msn/hotmail.

    i did however join 3 years ago from my main (hotmail) account. i deleted my ladslads though but yet even to this day im still recieving winks and messages from other members….

  86. Steven Lee says:

    I don’t know why i stumbled across this but anyway in terms of deletion.

    On fitlads.net you have to enter your email and chosen password for fitlads and your profile gets deleted straight away, they keep your info and pictures for 30 days before permantly deleting them.

    Where as on ladslads, i deleted, what 2 years ago?, later last year i re-joined with the same email and username i had before and to my surprise all my info and pictures where there waiting for me, WHICH i wasn’t too happy about to be honest, i’m forever being spammed with useless information to my email address from ladslads.

  87. I can’t believe I am so late to the party…I’m not a big fan of fitlads, it used to be ok but over time just feels like such a huge money making scheme what with their magazine and porn studios/dvds. If I had the choice I’d rather spend me money on Ladlads as it has a really nice friendly vibe or I’d use ManCentral for free 😀

  88. P Marshall says:

    Cancelled Ladslads in 2008.

    Still taking £10 every 2 months. They owe me £200. How do I contact their admins to get it back? I have to join up again.

    Is my personal data still on there? Yes. Even tho DPA REQUIRES BY LAW to delete it.

    They suck. Period.

    At least Gaydar don’t fuck you around with Finances and / or your own private / personal data.

    Get it right guys – this is not a mafia thing, this a simple crap customer service / against-the-law thing. End of.

  89. Ian Hughes says:

    Damien, Remember me, your favourite teacher from school? Nice to see you have turned gay like me

  90. john says:

    this blog is just like the dribble that is fitlads forums . . . a load of bitches scratching each other from morning till night

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